Fighter's Quantum Power Cell Replication

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Fighter posted this 30 March 2024

Hello,

This is my replication thread for Joel Lagace's Quantum Power Cell.

Info from one of my posts there:

I ordered some conductive carbon felt from China:

Soft Battery Electrode Conductivity Graphite Felt High Temperature Carbon Fiber

As Relaxa is not available in Europe, the closest product I found available and I ordered is this:

Effecol 3350 Epsilon Health, 12 plicuri x 13,3 g, S.I.I.T.

Hopefully its PEG 3350 composition is similar to the Canadian product.

I don't have a sheet of magnesium but I have one high-purity Zinc plate I bought for the water-based device (post here).

I'll see how it works with that and I'll try with other metals. If the efficiency will be lower I will search for a magnesium plate.

For now I must wait for the carbon felt, it will take a few weeks to come from China.

I'll come with updates.

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
AbitAnnoying posted this 06 August 2024

Hello. I also started doing some experiments with PEG cell. I use pure PEG8000, it's easy to get and cheap. It has just longer molecules than 4450. For now I am using pure PEG without other added substances to see how it behaves. I started with aluminum and copper electrodes, but then I thought it would be best to eliminate as many variables as possible, so I made a test cell with pure PEG and both electrodes with carbon (cleaned and fired carbon rods from the battery). This way I am sure that there is no galvanic reaction. I would like to ask a few things.
1) aren't you worried that if you add water to the mixture, some of it will stay inside and never evaporate? Yes, you can then bake the whole thing, but you can use melted PEG straight away. That's how I do it for now, then I don't have to wait days for it to dry and i can be sure that there is no water.
2) Why do you think that the multimeter will show you true information about the internal resistance? A multimeter cannot measure the resistance of something that produces its own voltage (unless they have a special function for measuring the internal resistance of batteries). I calculated the internal resistance using the no-load voltage of the cell and the short-circuit current (the short-circuit voltage is so low that it is unmeasurable with my equipment, it will show 0), and I also measured the current flowing through the cell with a connected voltage of 30V from the source. Both methods gave me a similar result of around 1.3Mohm of PEGcell internal resistance. I would like to discuss a few more things and share and compare measurement results if you are interested..

Fighter posted this 06 August 2024

Hi AbitAnnoying and welcome.

What product on the market have PEG8000 ? Is it better ?

From my experience I don't think this material can trap water inside forever, it's not like glass or something like that.

I present my experiments with the knowledge in electronics I have and with the equipment I have, if there are better ways than mine that's fine. šŸ™‚

If you want you can create your own thread in the Replications category to present your experiments just like we all do here. That would help to not mix the information from different experiments (as much as possible) so there would be no confusion.

'Cause that's why we're here, to share experiments, results and ideas.

If you need help in creating the thread just let me know and I'll help.

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
AbitAnnoying posted this 06 August 2024

Thank you. I bought it from an online store selling greases and lubricants. Straight as pure PEG8000, not a product containing PEG. Online shops selling chemicals also offer different PEGs (PEG 300, PEG 800, etc.) but it tends to be more expensive. But even so, PEG in the form of some medicine is probably the most expensive option.. I don't know if it's better. We'll see.. From what I've read, each PEG contains molecules of different lengths, it's just a matter of which length is the most numerous.

AbitAnnoying posted this 06 August 2024

So I was looking for some information about PEG and I read that PEG is highly hydrophilic. So I have the answer to my question.. PEG never completely dries out in the open air. Attracts and retains moisture. It must be thoroughly dried and isolated from atmospheric moisture, otherwise it will quickly absorb a lot of water. Now I just have to find a suitable way to dry it completely.. I'll let you know when I figure something out.

Fighter posted this 06 August 2024

Source of the information ? I doubt it. Anyway, this can easily be seen after, let's say, one year when I can break one of the cells and see if there is any corrosion on electrodes or not.

Joel told me he accidentally broke one of his cells after two months and he saw no trace of corrosion.

So far I didn't observed any visible trace of corrosion on any of the electrodes. The simple fact that one of my cells using both electrodes made of aluminum tinfoil is still producing some voltage tells me these cells are not usual galvanic cells.

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
AbitAnnoying posted this 07 August 2024

I found some medical articles where PEG is mentioned as a hydrophilic substance, also some patents where it is mentioned as a hydrophilic additive. It is in Czech language, here are some links(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://theses.cz/id/jcu8or/Celprce.pdf%3Flang%3Dcs&ved=2ahUKEwjQ1Iy1guKHAxVbgf0HHQbRCCA4ChAWegQIFhAB&usg=AOvVaw0PNeirVuOq4UiBijKilo82 , http://www.gate2biotech.cz/nanokytky-pro-prepravu-protinadorovych-leku/. , https://aleph.vkol.cz/pub/svk06/00029/16/000291641.htm. , https://patents.google.com/patent/CZ291641B6/cs), but I'm sure that Google will find you something in English. Then I asked ChatGPT about drying details. He again mentioned that PEG is hydrophilic and described drying and storage methods. But I'm not a chemist and I don't know what properties water bound to a hydrophilic substance has. As you said, no corrosion is formed. However, without drying, water is present in the PEG.

AbitAnnoying posted this 07 August 2024

When I have time I will start a new thread and describe my Cell so we can compare. But I think that because you use water, you get more current from the cell. I measure a few uA at most and you measure mA. I think it reduces the internal resistance of the Cell. That's why the voltage rises when the peg "dries up" (excess water that has nowhere to bind evaporates). I'll try using water too and see what current I get..

Dee_K posted this 07 August 2024

Hello Fighter,

My first post but I have been following for quite awhile and I have a few thoughts I would like to share.

A little investigation into hydrophilicity leads me to think the voltage of these cells could be due to the ionic hydrogen bonds between the water and the PEG. Those bonds having an electric polarity, perhaps the electrodes are providing a means of connecting to the positives and negatives of these bonds, based upon the electronegativity values of the electrodes.

Looking at the chart at https://sciencenotes.org/list-of-electronegativity-values-of-the-elements/ shows a value of 2.20 for hydrogen, 2.55 for carbon, 1.90 for copper, 1.61 for aluminum, and 1.31 for magnesium which could explain the higher voltage of the magnesium and carbon felt cell.

As a thought, it might be good to keep the PEG solution slightly wet instead of drying it out completely (to relative humidity). It may be that voltage fluctuations in a dried cell could be caused by changes in humidity and possibly barometric pressure.

Just some thoughts that may be relative to the subject.

Dee

 

Fighter posted this 08 August 2024

Hi Dee and welcome,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about these cells.

It is possible these cells may attract some water from the air but in my opinion it's not used for a galvanic process because as far as I was able to check there are no signs of corrosion on the electrodes in any of these cells.

I've built this improvised cell especially for this, it has a kind of white-ish crystaline appearance and also a bit of transparency on the surface so I would easily see any trace of color change on the electrodes inside it:

I check it carefully from time to time and there is no signs like that on the electrodes inside its structure.

After more than a month it's completely dried out and it's still providing those about 1.3 volts which is good enough, no need to put water in it. The goal is to see how it behaves unattended (without needing to put periodically water in it) and to see on the long term if the electrodes are affected or not.

Of course the definitive proof will be to break one of these after 1-2 years and to confirm the electrodes are not affected in any way.

So far the things are looking good, after more than one month if there would be a galvanic process I think we should already see some color changes (at least) on the electrodes. Which is not the case right now as far as I can see.

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
Nikola Tesla
AbitAnnoying posted this 12 August 2024

Hi, hopefully I'll have time today to start a separate thread and share my results. I've been testing here all weekend.. I'd like to focus more on the Cell with electrodes made of the same material, eliminating the electrochemical potential between them so that the electrical properties of the peg play the main role. So I thought it would be good to try gold electrodes. Chemically inert so no chemical reactions between electrode and PEG. I just don't know if I can get something gold-plated with a sufficient surface, because I won't be buying pure gold for that. So for now just an idea for an experiment that I want to share.

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