Beyond Unity - Fighter's ZPM (Zero Point Module) failed replication by Itsu

Itsu posted this 07 November 2022

Hello all,

i opened this thread to discuss my replication of Fighter's ZPE (Zero Point Module).

I already opened a similar thread on OUR.com (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4374.msg101654#msg101654 ), but will transfer some data from there to here.

Initially i understood that the below diagram was correct and complete, but it turns out its not.
There is a ground connection somewhere, but i am not sure where it is exactly, hopefully someone can tell me.
The MOSFET is shown wrong as the Drain and Source should be swapped, which was corrected later in Fighter his thread so therefor the mentioning in red.

I have build up a similar circuit and the data is shown here:
(Be aware that the induction measurement was done at 10kHz, but due to the influence of the metglas core it can be (and is) completly different on other frequencies, see my thread on OUR.com for a VNA scan of the coil/core)

I am using a 12V battery for now as my PS (minus NOT grounded) was acting weird due to all the pulses coming back from the ZPE device.
Up till now no special effects or resonance in a 0 to 5MHz range are seen with this setup, but as said the grounding may be the problem here.

Itsu

zpm

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Itsu posted this 09 December 2022

Hi CD,

thats not entirely true, as can be seen i the drawing, my scope is grounded and supplies ground to the circuit.

But i agree that there is no ground at the PS, but that was needed to be able to make the measurements using my grounded scope.

I normally do have the PS grounded and i avoid making measurments with the scope at not grounded points, so if the effect would be there i would have noticed it.

Thanks, Itsu

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editor posted this 09 December 2022

Hi Itsu,

as I can see it and I can feel you struggle, maybe you are going too far.

We still didn't figure out why we have light on the very low frequency part. Fighter has the resonance frequency

in a range from 100 to 700khz, but we have it like 2-3khz. If you watch his video for finding the resonant point of the ZPE.

At the end of the day it should be obvious to see the effect with any problems with no use of scope. From my side I for sure will continue, But with the limited time it is a small progress. For sure you see today's post with another positive result from Jagau.😀

have a nice day or night, e

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Itsu posted this 09 December 2022 - Last Edited 09 December 2022

Dear Fighter,

nobody is excluding anything nor is making up rules, it seems you have a lot of frustrations from past experiences on these forums.

When i say "looks impressive but is no real power", is as i see 27A of current flowing through a circuit, but the power showing is only 2W or so.

For power we need voltage and current in phase, and that is NOT the case in my measurement, the 27A looks impressive, but the 2W is NOT, let me show you:

Here again the same screenshot as the one you use, but now i have added the Math trace showing in red Voltage x current meaning power in the middle of the screen.

This is the voltage and current going across and through the bulbs when at 378kHz resonance as before, again with 20A of P2P current, but a mere 4.7W of power.

There is no real power there, the bulbs are barely on despite the 20A of p2p current.

There are no measurement errors that i am aware of, if so, please tell me, show me, say "you cannot measure that power there because....".

There are measurements as that is what i do, i make measurements showing people what i see and i try to make sense out of it.

Of course, anyone is entitled to have their own interpretations on my screenshots, there they are for, but it needs to make sense.

Anyone is welcome to ask for more or other screenshots, i will gladly make them.

I am still waiting for my 0.8mm magnet wire from the UK, takes ages nowadays after Brexit, but hopefully i can make a last attempt with the proper 150 : 300 turns relation anytime soon.

Regards Itsu

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Itsu posted this 09 December 2022

Quoting:editor

Hi Itsu,

as I can see it and I can feel you struggle, maybe you are going too far.

We still didn't figure out why we have light on the very low frequency part. Fighter has the resonance frequency

in a range from 100 to 700khz, but we have it like 2-3khz. If you watch his video for finding the resonant point of the ZPE.

At the end of the day it should be obvious to see the effect with any problems with no use of scope. From my side I for sure will continue, But with the limited time it is a small progress. For sure you see today's post with another positive result from Jagau.😀

have a nice day or night, e

Hi Editor,

you might be right that i am going to far, to far of the beaten track probably but i can assure you that in the mean time i have looked at this ZPM at all angles i can imagine, far mor then that i have shown here.

Concerning the "we have light on the very low frequency part" is not true here anymore, my present ZPM is resonating on 378kHz using this cheap 24V LED PS only.

As i do not see any effect looking at the bulbs (brightly on) and no current flowing on the amp meter i have to look further and try to find any anomalies using anything including the scope.

I have seen Jagau his thread, its promising, but there is no mention of "bulbs brightly on while zero current on the amp meter" nor is there the COP = infinite that Fighter has shown, so i won't hold my breath yet.

Regards Itsu

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Vidura posted this 09 December 2022

Hello friends, good discussion after all! It is understandable that Fighter will stand for his discovery, of course if you have something working in front of your eyes on the bench it is a direct experience and no doubts come up. But it is also understandable that those who could not reproduce the effect(still), will eventually have some doubts. Regarding the measurements it is tricky when working with high frequency in general, and still more with this kind of devices. Personally I kept myself in a neutral position, but when I saw Atti's experiment with an analogue pointer meter on the PS, I would incline to more than 90% that the effect is real. As I have stated before I do not even trust the scope in some cases, despite that under NORMAL conditions it is a very accurate device. But In some cases, especially with this kind of devices I saw that ohms law does not apply. For example some current measurements with a shunt resistor didn't change at all when removing the shunt and clamp the scope probe together with the ground clip. So what to do with such a measurement? Also Yoelmicro observed this effect, so it's not my scope😀.

Regarding the failed replications (including my own) I believe that the setup is not correct in some parameters, just review Atti's experiments, you will see that there are a lot of parameters, which have influence of the effect. He also stated that the strong E-field is observable when the effect is there. So I think it could be helpful If the dependence of the appearance of this effect on different parameters can be found. There is no point in discussing on 5, 10 , or 16% of difference in measurements, when the effect is there it will be obvious. Good luck for all who are participating.

Vidura

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Fighter posted this 09 December 2022

Quoting:Itsu

I have seen Jagau his thread, its promising, but there is no mention of "bulbs brightly on while zero current on the amp meter" nor is there the COP = infinite that Fighter has shown, so i won't hold my breath yet.

Do you see the 0.034A on the input ?

Also do you see the light bulb shining ?

Click on the image, the image magnifier will show the details to you.

Jagau just presented a new ZPM successful replication and a new example of the input decreasing effect.

With a bigger light bulb (or two) on my ZPM output I also had 0.010A - 0.030A on input.

2.533W input with 4.032W output is 1.6 COP. It's a pretty good COP and it's overunity, don't you think ?

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Itsu posted this 09 December 2022

Fighter,

yes, i have seen the 0.034A (34mA) on the OUTPUT, (not input), but i did not see the input decreasing effect.

Jagau is using a 120V / 4W bulb, so 34mA is about right to have it full on.

The 2.533W input with 4.032W output is 1.6 COP and it surely is a pretty good COP but it is by far not the "COP = infinity" that you have shown, nor does he show the "effect" of decreasing input current while the bulb stays fully on.

Don't get me wrong, i don't want to be a spoiler, but come on guys, stay real, we are after that "effect" you have shown us, so i would hardly call this a successful replication yet.

COP 1.6 is good, but it still falls in the boundaries of error margins, so hopefully with some tweaking Jagau will be able to increase that a notch or 2

Itsu

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Fighter posted this 10 December 2022

Hi Itsu,

Yes, I just checked the photo. But still, what those "boundaries of error margins" are ? With COP 1.6 ? This is something new, who establish those error margins and what are they based on ? Is there a formula ?

And another question, why do you keep saying "COP=infinity" ? I always had at least a few miliamperes on my input, a variable value which sometimes was going to 0 but I never had constant 0mA on the input of my ZPMs. So, no, I don't think "COP=infinity" is a proper term for what I shown, ZPM is not working with 0 input.

Regards,

Fighter

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
		Nikola Tesla

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Jagau posted this 10 December 2022 - Last Edited 10 December 2022

Hi Vidura

Quote from Vidura

For example some current measurements with a shunt resistor didn't change at all when removing the shunt and clamp the scope probe together with the ground clip. So what to do with such a measurement? Also Yoelmicro observed this effect, so it's not my scope

You are right and YOEL too
that's why I don't use this method. today there are good current probe bargains on Ebay

But they must be recalibrated as I did in order to have the right measurements
Jagau

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Munny posted this 10 December 2022 - Last Edited 10 December 2022

Fighter,

If we are talking about standing waves, that impies there is a current phase shift taking place where voltage and current is in-phase at the exact location of the bulb filaments. It also implies that the voltage and current is out-of-phase right at the power supply when the MOSFET is conducting and in-phase when the MOSFET is not conducting. This would mean the wire lengths and types are absolutely critical.

Calculating this will be a pure rats nest and can likely only be determined experimentally. My suggestion:

On both the input and output, put in-place two long parallel copper rods. These will be used to take measurements from where we probe every centimeter or so along the rods looking for hot and cold spots, meaning, places where current and voltage are in-phase and out-of-phase. If you were running much higher voltage, you could connect neon bulbs across the bars and visually detect these spots of interest.

Until these tests are done, it will be extremely difficult to build a proper replication and know exactly how any ZPM needs to be tuned.

Standing waves are a bitch, period. Years ago I used to tune transmitter antennas where a couple of millimeters is the difference between success and blown final amp transistors. It's all about knowing the width and density of the standing waves and you can't know that until you specifically go looking for them with a methodology that might actually allow you to map them.

Also, I'd like to comment about Itsu's MOSFETs getting hot at higher frequencies. Above about 100kHz you really need strong drivers, 10 Amp or so. And if we are dealing with standing waves, you probably need bipolar gating to keep the MOSFET from false triggering from the ringing. I've had pretty good success with +15V/-5V gating. So you'll need about a 3 Watt isolated DC2DC converter, an isolated high output gate driver and plenty of filter capacitors. The idea is to allow the drive side of the MOSFET to float with the Source pin so the gate capacitance doesn't cause us problems. With a setup like this, you should be able to run all the way to 1MHz without much issue, though you will need both the MOSFET and the gate driver to be heat sinked. They'll get a little warm but should be able to run continuous for testing purposes.

If you do the above, your switching is nice and clean, everything working great and the effect your looking for from the ZPM goes away, that tells you the ZPM needs those high frequency transients your MOSFET was producing before you tweaked things. If that turns out to be the case, you probably have to do some rethinking about how to really drive this device.

The goal should be with this as well as any such device, to be able to buy a box of parts, follow some documented procedure and within a few days have a functioning device with repeatable characteristics. If you can't do that, then you really don't know what it is you're trying to replicate, let alone how it really works. I've thown a lot of stuff at the wall to see if sticks. It didn't. I was left to clean up the mess on the floor (or workbench).

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